Tuesday, September 30, 2008

Swingers & Prostitution

My previous blog about the old (married) man and his "massage" inspired this train of thought. If you are already disgusted, please, don't continue to read.

The whole idea behind swinging confuses me. If you are in a marriage, if you love your wife, why would you look elsewhere? Why would you ever consider...(yuck) sharing, her?

Is it all created by people who are looking for an out? Is it all designed by individuals who are looking for the next best thing but don't want to lose what they have?

Aren't they afraid of jealousy? Don't they experience jealousy?

How could you possibly do research on such a topic without making people think you're into this sort of thing? Who can you ask without offending them? Questions like "Do you have any standards and don't you fear jail?" come to mind.

I could never even let my wife dance with a stranger. How can people do this?

Confusion for the day brought to you by Wikipedia.

On a similar note, prostitution.

I remember back in Junior High...(what a note to start on huh?)...yes, JUNIOR HIGH, 7th grade 11 years old, I knew of girls who would do things for $20. 20 freakin' dollars!

I was saddened by it. I didn't know any of them personally but I knew who they were. They weren't mentally retarded or anything so I couldn't figure it out. Why? I mean I know money was the objective but why were they so desperate for it.

The only thing I can think of to this day is that they were previously abused. A terribly sad situation and something that is not their fault. How does this happen in adulthood? Why for such little cash? Do they charge more or less in different areas? Why?

Do they value themselves less in bad cities? Do prostitutes in different countries charge more for certain things than others? Is there anyone who keeps track of the market? Supply and demand? I would imagine someone has to. Maybe paying for and importing different...talents.

A disturbing image for sure but where there is money, there are no values, so to speak.

Does dignity cost only $20? How do those girls feel now if they are still alive? How do their parents?

Is there a prostitute that isn't psychologically scarred?

I am intrigued by things that I don't understand. I don't understand the logic that leads people to make certain decisions. How do they come to a conclusion that these things are good for them?

I have no answers, just questions I wanted to jot down. This blog and your responses to it will inspire tomorrows poll question though so I hope you return!


Lea Self said...

I wouldn't want to know how, in the 7th grade, 11 years old, you knew about prostitution.. none-the-less what the going rates were where you were...

Oh, and about your comment.. I can be a student and blog at the same time because women can multi-task better than men. I learned that in Psych. =)

Dawnie said...

I'm intriqued at times also by things I would not do. Not sure why, I always considered the "dark" side of me.

As for swinging, I cant fathom sharing my partner and I would not hesitate to end my marriage if my husband suggested it. Its a disgusting thought, people sharing their mates.

Have you ever checked out a swinger site? Its amazing how these people describe their partners that they are sharing, its almost like your shopping..well I guess you are!

I picture sitting down with my husband and discussing how we are doing to describe me so that another man would want me--what a vile thought!

I guess for some, they truly feel it not about love, its about sex and they separate the two. I cant do that. I can however let my husband dance with another lady--lol. Well at least a fast dance--a slow one--only with his daughters or mom!

TMC said...

Is it a bit pimpish to say "I could never even let my wife dance with a stranger" ??


: )

My guess is that people rationalize poor decisions in stages (it's more of a slope, I think) by saying that what they do isn't nearly as gross or objectionable as what those other people do. For example, the girls who'll take $20 for a handjob but make fun of the skanky girls who "go all the way."

HektikLyfe said...

>Lea: Two of my closes friends just happened to be raised by white trash parents. I learned all the wrong things about sex pretty early. By the time Junior High came around everyone was aware of their sexuality. That is the age where all the changes occur, its inevitable. If you think back you were probably aware of a few things yourself at that age.

>Dawnie: I think you make a valid point. People in jail don't call it homosexuality, they make some strange distinction and it is just "sex" for them.

>TMC: I think "Let" was exactly the word I meant to use. I consider myself lucky to have found the wife I have. One who is not afraid, in fact proud, to play her role just as I play mine. She would never ask me for permission to dance with a strange man, but if she did, it would be my duty to either allow or deny that request. Just as she has all the power to allow or deny any outing or acquaintance I have. In this age of gender confusion I consider myself lucky indeed.

As for the comparison I think you hit it right on the nose. "At least I'm not THAT bad!" seems to be the saving grace. Before they look back to what they used to be its too late.

Nana Net said...

Okay, here I go opening my mouth! LOL
As for thw "Swingers". There is a show on Tv now that is called :Swingtown" Or at least it was during the summer months. Not sure if it will be back on or not. I did watch it just to see what all the hoopla was about it. To me it was about a bunch of sex-starved people and others who were confused about the state of their marriage, etc.
As to those who do it in real life I figure it is because they just love to have sex with different people! And to have others join in. And more than likely they somehow get off having others watch them too! (Boy what a mouthful to say) As to the why's of it all "Don't ask me!' LOL Cause I do not have the answers to it!

To the rest of the subject at hand.... My husband and I do dance with others. That is our friends, family and of course each other!!! Examples that come to mind are when we go out, weddings, parties, etc. That we have what is called "TRUST." And if a married couple does not have that then they are in for some really hard times.
For those who take lifes' path of prostitution, etc. all I can say to that is sometimes we do not know the circumstances that lead up to why they choose this path! And I try my best to not judge them. Because for all I know one day I may not have a choice but to do what they do in order to survive!
Sorry for the long post. But this is just my own opinion and some food for thought!

HektikLyfe said...

>Nana: About the dancing. Friends, & family are fine of course and I trust my wife more than anyone. That's why I specifically stated "strangers." Some random dude can't just walk up to my wife and ask her to dance.

I trust her completely. I just don't trust them. Guys are animals. They will do and say things that could bother or hurt my wife and it is my duty to protect her. People slip things into people's drinks. People grasp. We avoid those ugly scenarios by being careful and we live better for it.

You have inspired a blog I may post later today. :)

"Survival" is subjective. McDonald's pays enough for you to "survive" in some way. Certain people wouldn't choose that life but it IS possible.

Some people want more for less which is when greed comes to play. People are always looking for any easy way out. Fame, fortune with as little work as possible. If you can charge for sex, you are most likely healthy enough to work.

Stella said...

I know a couple that are swingers. While I wouldn't get in the bed with them, nor understand their lifestyle, they seem very happy together and in love, even after 10 years of marriage. Now I know other couples that have been married for 10 years, and they don't seem happy together and in love. Go figure. Do you think the swingers have figured something out?

I have to admit, I don't understand the dancing either.

And, I don't think we should judge the prostitutes. You never know what they've been through and what their story is. It's unfortunate that 11 year old girls will do such things for $20. Parents, and schools have to do a better job of protecting kids.

HektikLyfe said...

Weird. I would feel so weird sitting next to people who I knew were swingers. Immature of me I'm sure but it is just so strange to me. I am the type of person that chooses to live in ignorance about people's lives. When I am talking to someone I don't think about the fact that they have sex. That they are naked under their clothes. I see them as people and I block out the rest. Knowing and acknowledging the fact that these folks have different and in some circles considered "wild" sexual appetites I couldn't pretend to ignore it.

What don't you understand about the dancing?

I am sure the prostitutes have a interesting and heartbreaking story to tell. I would love to hear them. I talk to my wife a lot about these things and I bring up similar topics during long drives. I would like to know their story. It is probably filled with a lot more drama then my own.

Is it unfortunate that girls would do those things for $20 or do those things at all?

Parents and schools indeed. If you met the "teachers" we had, you wouldn't be surprised. That was public school and the public education system is a joke 'round these parts.

Nana Net said...

Ok, in reference to the "Some Dude coming up and asking her to dance" my reply is this.
For me personally I can either accept his offer to dance or refuse it. (Now of course 9 times out of 10 my hubby is right there beside me) And believe me if the "Stranger/Guy steps out of line he will surely know that he has! Either by me or my husband. That I am one who is not afraid to tell you just like it is when it comes to someone offending me or anything else. More so if you keep on bugging me. LOL My husband does a great job at protecting me. But yet says that at times I do a better job of doing it myself. Guess you could say this is because of how I was raised! Which is to be "Independent!" To which I make no apologies for. Yes, it does get me into trouble at times, but hey I do love a good challenge! :0)

Still though, your post does make one wonder and ask questions. Which to me is a good thing! Enjoy your day my friend and keep on blogging. Cause you surely do make this here woman think out loud! ;0)

Sarah said...

I am in an open relationship...and although my man and I don't swap partners, we are both free to 'dance' with who ever we choose.

Some people just view sex in a different way...as an act completely separate from love. The level of trust, commitment and intimacy needed to make this kind of relationship work is more than most people share in a lifetime.

And I wouln't exactly say prostitution is 'on a similar note'!!!

HektikLyfe said...

Wait, "dance" "dance?" or dance dance? ;)

I see how people COULD see things that way but don't you think it kind of defies the whole "commitment" idea? I would imagine commitment and exclusivity go hand in hand, so to speak. I agree that it requires trust, of sorts. Because what exactly could you distrust when you significant other is openly cheating on you.

Intimacy is a difficult thing to explain. I could see how a couple, or triple if you're really freaky, could be intimate to the point where they could be with multiple partners together. But the act of separately going with others creates a huge fissure in the idea of a relationship for me.

For example, a couple taking another person into their bedroom, while not something I would recommend, is very different compared to a couple going into separate homes to be with other people.

Neither is better, I just think that really changes everything from a wild couple that is into adventurous things, to a couple that does not satisfy each others needs sufficiently.

Swingers "charge" for sex with their significant others but receiving sex with someone else.

In prostitution, the only difference is the monetary compensation.

I would imagine someone would feel ripped off if they didn't get to do with their swing partner what the other got to do with their spouse.

Sarah said...

Commitment to a relationship has little to do with sex. It's about making the relationship a top priority and making your partner a top priority. If your partner wants to be exclusive, then you must show your commitment to that relationship and remain exclusive.

Cheating implies dishonesty or deception...which does not apply here.

I expect people to be uncomfortable with the choices my partner and I make and usually I do not talk about it..however, when I see it being put in the same category as prostitution I have to speak up.

HektikLyfe said...

You really define the difference in our personalities in your first sentence. It is all about how we define terminology and what that terminology means to us.

I will not judge you for who you are or how you live. You make your own choices and if you are happy, then more power to you.

I can still question it all though just the same. I question many of the things I do myself. Curiosities of human nature. I do not intend to ever offend anyone personally by my choice of words.

That said, I think commitment has a LOT to do with sex. Sex is the most intimate physical thing you can do with a partner and I believe it is something reserved exclusively for that partner. This is the way I feel. Sex is not the ONLY thing nor the most important but it IS part of it. This is why so many relationships fall apart directly as a result of issues with or about sex.

To me, if a partner chooses not to remain exclusive to me, then that partner is not committed to me.

A lack of commitment doesn't necessarily involve cheating, dishonesty, or deception.

Oh I'm comfortable with any choice people make with their lives. I wouldn't be comfortable making those same choices, that goes without saying, but I do retain the right to question them and ask for clarification for the sake of understanding.

The fact that I don't understand how someone could come to a conclusion like that shouldn't be taken as an attack or offense of any sort. I do not mean it that way. You have spoken up, but I still have yet to hear any reasoning for your choices. This is what I am asking for in my questions in the original blog above.

Thank you for responding and speaking up. This is EXACTLY why I write them to begin with. Even if it riles people up. Argue your point with a well researched and justified defense and your points will be well taken. This is why we are all here after all. :)

As for the parallels between swinging and prostitution I made with that sentence, I think that was clarified in my previous post about the exchange currency being your significant other.

How long have you been married to your partner? Was this a decision you made early on? Did one suggest it first or was it mutual? Was there EVER any emotional pain or did it just come naturally? These are honest questions and I hope they're not taken as discourteous or facetious.

Sarah said...

Reasoning? Well it's all in what I believe to be true and what I don't believe to be true. I am not here to justify my reasoning, it's not why I commented.

I am not married to my partner and we don't plan on marrying. We are, however, deeply committed to each other and to our 2 children. Our decision was a mutual one based on our beliefs. We aren't swingers eith, BTW, we are in an open relationship...so there is no swapping or prostitution going on there;)

I understand your comparison, although I find it to be kind of a weak one. My best friend gave it up after her man bought her a diamond engagement ring. Swinging has about to do with prostitution as that does...

HektikLyfe said...

Granted, but I am not asking for "justification." I in no way intend for anyone to feel as if they have to answer to me for anything. I am just curious. It doesn't make sense to me so I am making the effort to understand. The way I base my decisions is on what I think is right. Rarely do I act upon impulse. I'm not saying that I don't but when I do, I know what the reasons are. I am just hoping to understand that which I could never see myself doing.

If there is no swapping or prostitution going on there, then you have no reason to feel offended or get defensive. I have no idea what you mean by "open" and you really have no reason to feel obligated to justify any decision you make. I compared swapping partners with prostitution specifically.

The ring... hmmm, if I wanted to play devil's advocate I would argue that my point still stands since it IS a transaction of sorts. But I will drop it. I understand what you mean. The ring symbolized renewed COMMITMENT including and emphasizing exclusivity. Why else would she give it up?

Wait, gave IT up or gave up swinging?

Sarah said...

I think possibly there is some confusion...LOL I am not offended. I was only hoping to clarify for you that swinging and other alternative sexual lifestyle are seedy transactions like the world of prostitution...which is unfortunately something that those in the lifestyle have to deal with a lot.

An open relationship is one in which both partners agree that sex with other people is allowed, while still staying committed to the relationship. Reasoning for it? Well, I guess it's far too much to explain in a blog comment. It encompasses everything I believe to be true about human nature, sexuality, marriage, relationships etc...just the same as your reasoning is for choosing a monogamous relationship.

The point I was trying to make was that monogamous couples also exchange sex for 'currency' of sorts. The same friend who gave IT up (yes sex) for a wedding ring, promises her hubby blow jobs in exchange for housework. I do the same within my relationships...and I certainly wouldn't consider the same as prostitution. Really, it doesn't matter though...my original comment was meant to be lighthearted and now my brain hurts:P